Lazaris on Lazaris
Would you explain who you are by answering a few questions?
All right.
The first one: Where do you come from?
Well, in your world you have time and space, and therefore it's possible to delineate a time/space continuum in a graphic sense. Beyond your reality—as close as the Astral Plane, and far beyond that in the realms where we exist—there is no time, no space. We come from levels that have expanded far beyond the Physical, Astral, Causal and Mental Planes. There are no points in time or space that can be delineated.
Would it then be accurate to say that you live on another planet as much as you live on the Earth?
Well, it would be inaccurate to say that we live on any planet. It would perhaps be sayable that we are present in other realities as we are present in this one.
Do you communicate with beings in places other than Earth as you are communicating with people on Earth?
Yes, but Earth is the only place where we're communicating with those of the Physical Plane.
The Physical Plane is the one in which the illusion is manifest. The Astral Plane is the plane where the probabilities of all that is manifest are played out. The Causal Plane is the plane of all possibilities. The Mental Plane is the one referred to in the religions as the various heavens. Even Biblical sources make reference to the Third Heaven—the Mental Plane.
These planes are vast. Everything in your Universe—the billions of stars and galaxies you see when you look out into the night—is part of the Physical Plane.
But Earth is the only planet that has human life with which we communicate. Other consciousness’ with which we interact have completed their physical incarnations and are moving through the various evolutionary planes of consciousness. We interact and work with them like we work with those of you in the Physical Plane: to help you understand the reality you're creating, how to take greater responsibility for it, and how to become more conscious of it so you can generate it rather than manipulate it.
How old are you? Are you older than the universe?
Well, there again the question implies time, which in your world makes perfect sense, and which in our world has no meaning. We could pick a number, you know, and say, Oh, we're 30,000 years old." There's no way to verify that, and it would have no meaning anyway.
In the interest of accuracy it's perhaps best to say that we have been aware of ourselves since before the Earth was aware of herself as a consciousness. Subsequently we have grown and become more aware of ourselves—just as the Earth, in her expression in physical form, has become more aware of herself, just as you have, in your growth.
How long have you been teaching human beings?
Well, we began our communication overtly in what would be October of 1974 (and with the channel several months previous to that), so it has been 18 years or so that we have been working with the Physical Plane. Prior to that, we worked ever so subtly (without voice contact) with the channel for several hundred years. We did so not to force, but to allow, to nudge, to suggest, to make the alignment so that our communication could be as clear as it possibly could.
Prior to that we were certainly communicating with consciousness’ on our planes of reality, and those consciousness’ who've left the Physical Plane behind. That has been going on for many thousands of years. But our first real communication with physical beings occurred many hundreds of years ago when we began working subtly with the channel.
Through several of his incarnations
Yes, subtly, in terms of nudging and making opportunities available—not creating for him a charmed incarnation by any means, but by making opportunities available to him that would move him in directions so that he would allow this.
A lot of people would not allow this kind of interaction where he goes into the states so altered and so unconscious" for hours at a time to allow things to be said and to go on about which he knows nothing. Many people think they could never do that, and they're probably right. For him to do that, feel comfortable with it, and not get egotistical and go off some sort of arrogant deep end"—sadly there have been many cases of that—took some steady work, adjustment and alignment to make it as clean, clear and open a channel as possible.
How many more years do you expect to continue teaching?
Well, we have so much to talk about. Indeed it is a New Age, a New Spirituality (more accurately put), and we always have so much new to say. We have at least 60 or 70 years, maybe even 80 years more activity. That's why we talk about ways to extend one's life, because we've got about 80 more years. When one does a bit of calculation, the channel's 44 years old. That puts it at about 134 years that he's got to stay healthy.
Now, he has free will, and we're certainly not going to hold him to that. Life is not going to be a prison. But we expect to be doing this kind of work for many, many decades yet to come, absolutely.
Do you have inside knowledge or information that no human being could have?
That no human being could have? No. We have information that a lot of human beings don't have, but none that they couldn't have.
You are a consciousness that exists as the physical being, but you also exist on the Astral, Causal and Mental Planes simultaneously—as well as on all the other levels of awareness. You just don't know it yet. Therefore, you can tap the Collective Unconscious, as Jung referred to it, and the information there that seems beyond your knowing.
You have artificially overlaid your Physical Reality with time and space. But outside of your Physical Plane time doesn't exist. And prior to 500 years ago, time was never linear even on your Physical Plane. In the 1200's and 1300's and even in the early 1400's, people had an understanding of time as a fluid, flexible thing that was your servant, something there to give you convenience and opportunity. It was only at the time of the Renaissance that time, this coiled energy, was straightened out." Science and religion took their hold then, and it became imperative that time be linear—with a beginning, middle and end—in order for science and religion to work." Though there wasn't a conference where such things were decided, there might as well have been.
You have access to the Collective Unconscious, and beyond that, there's a vast array of information that in its time (as you would refer to it)—in its consciousness (as we would refer to it)—will be available to you. Therefore, there's nothing that human beings can't know.
It could be said that God/Goddess/All That Is (the phrase we attach to the Divinity) doesn't know anything that human beings are incapable of knowing because in the time of your own evolution you will become one with that God/Goddess/All That Is and have full access to all that they have.
So, there's no information humans couldn't have, but obviously there's a lot of information that many consciousness’ aren't aware of, even though potentially they could be.
Do you know of people who teach similarly to you from this perspective?
No, the elegance of the universe—the elegance of the cosmos, more clearly—is such that we are the only one from our particular levels (and we say that plural because we are aware of ourselves on many levels simultaneously) who is communicating. The reason for that is not that we're better than" or have been elected" to do so, but rather because of the elegance of the cosmos.
On our levels, what we know, all the other entities on our levels of awareness also know. What they know, we know, and that's instantaneous. Therefore, to have two consciousness’ from the same levels would be redundant. With the elegance of cosmos, there are not those kinds of redundancies, so we are the only one from our levels communicating.
There are nonphysical energies communicating and doing similar kinds of work. Back in the 1980's, it seemed that out of every bit of woodwork was coming one more channel—for good reasons and bad. Now it's clearing out, and many who were bogus and phony (consciously or unconsciously), limited in their sight, tricksters of the unconscious or subconscious, or who didn't have a valid, new, or clear message have dwindled away. Not all—it's not that easy - but most have disappeared, and only a very few that are still doing the kind of work they were doing then. There are some, but we're the only one from our level.
I'm wondering if you ever had an option to communicate with people through a different medium, and I ask it because I know that most people dismiss channeling out of hand?
That's interesting, yes?
Especially leaders of industry and nations who are the ones most able to make changes in the world.
Well, we have a choice, certainly so. We always have choice, just as you have absolute choice. We purposely chose to communicate in this fashion.
Why?
Partly because that is the way that it's always been done. Ironically, it isn't really true that most people dismiss channeling out of hand. They just don't talk about it. Historically, every religion has been a channeled communication. There isn't one that is not. According to Christianity, Jesus talked to God and communicated God's words. The Prophets would communicate with the angels and relay their stories. The entire concept of the religion is that the Bible is the word of God. Now there isn't one Christian in the world that would suggest that God sat down with pen and paper. No, God communicated—channeled—information through various individuals. Moses wrote five of those books, the most popular five perhaps.
The Bible is a channeled text. The Quran, and the various Islamic religious concepts, are channeled texts. Buddhism is channeled. Every religion is a channeled communication. Channeling is a very common way, and the vast majority of humanity does not just dismiss it out of hand.
We understand what you're meaning, but in the larger picture it is the most appropriate way to communicate.
And spiritualism and paranormal phenomena were much more accepted in those days than is true now.
Oh, certainly.
I think Jesus would have trouble, too, if he appeared now.
Certainly, but would that mean that he should not?
No, but if he has many options as to how to communicate to human beings. You have many options. Why would you choose one that has such a huge obstacle with it?
What do you see are the other options, just as an example?
You could have reincarnated.
Well, we've never been physical, nor desire to be. And part of the reason we chose this method is that the medium challenges one's thought. The method of communication is also part of the message in something of a McLuhan sense. Part of what we're saying is, Look, people, there is consciousness that exists far beyond that which you can believe, far beyond that which you can imagine. There are levels of consciousness that exist that are beyond that of the Physical Plane. We are an example of that; we come from that level. We're not going to sell out in the sense of being dishonest.
We realize that we could well just put these ideas in the channel's head and have him appear to speak them out of his own intuitive sense. We well could convey them to him in dream states or he could even have a sense of, well, I'm getting this information now, and just tell what he's getting. As a human being he would be more acceptable. It would be an easier avenue to just plant the ideas in his head, let him think that they were his ideas, and let the world think: Wow, this human being has some rather far out, interesting, and indeed very valuable ideas.
But that's not honestly what's happening. They're not his ideas, they're ours. They're not his insights, they're ours. We're not going to lie or twist the truth to make it more palatable, because part of what we're talking about is honesty. We know we are a challenge to certain people. We know there will be many who will dismiss us out of hand. We're willing to have that because truth means so very much to us. Ultimately, beyond love, that's all you've got. Honesty and Truth are right next to love as the core energies of this cosmos of yours. So we're not going to abandon honesty or truth for the convenience of communicating in a way that is less than honest and truthful, less than whole.
Why not just become a body? Why not just put the ideas into the channel's head and let him live with the delusion that they're his original thought? Because we respect him and his integrity of growth. Because we respect human beings, and their ability to say no. Reality is a product of choice, and you have choice as to the method of growth. We want to provide that opportunity and that challenge, and that's why we chose this means.
We've been talking only 18 years or so, and we would suggest here that there are thousands and thousands of years yet that your planet will unfold, and it may be many thousands of years before one looks back and indeed puts it in a perspective. But that's all right as well.
We choose this method because it's actually the most effective one for what we want to do, the most honest one, the most truthful one.
Is there anything that you would like to say that might convince agnostics and skeptics that channeling is really true?
No, we have no desire to convert or convince anybody. There needs to be distinction made between skepticism and cynicism, but skepticism is healthy and wonderful, and we would encourage people: Be skeptical. Honest skepticism is entailed in many aspects of growth.
Cynicism is a different matter. Cynicism is just having the closed mind and the closed eyes. There's nothing that anybody can do to open those eyes, and those that attempt to are being rather foolish and often end up very frustrated and martyred—and we will be neither frustrated nor martyred at all.
Furthermore, we're very clear: We're not for everyone. We're not here to reach every consciousness. We're here for those who can understand us, recognizing also that we're not the only avenue of growth.
There is a certain segment of those involved in the New Spirituality who have invited us, in the very broad meaning of that word, to work with them. We're not here to work with everyone involved in humanity or even everyone involved in growth. We're here to work only with those who have invited us to be a part of their process of growth, and we're content with that.
We've often said that when we first began talking with Penny, the one we came to talk with, we said to her, Look, if we talk to no one else, we'll be more than happy. Our `mission' will be fulfilled. And if you would like it, we will talk to others. So we do, but there's no `mission.' There's no need to reach a certain group or number of people. And we have no desire to convince anybody of anything, particularly not of the efficacy of channeling.
There are a number of people who claim to be channeling who aren’t and a number who are channeling but perhaps deluding themselves. Therefore, we have no desire to convince anyone that channeling is true. You would not want to convince anyone that all human beings are this way or that way. You present yourself as an individual. You don't try to speak for all males or females or all homosapiens in the cosmos. You speak for yourself. Some people believe you and get your credibility; others don't.
We are not speaking for all channeled entities or all cosmic energy. We speak for ourselves. Some will get us, and some will not, and that's fine.
How many people are you working with?
There are many, many, many thousands of people with whom we communicate. We work with many through various workshops. There are also many who, due to their visibility or public posture, find it rather impossible to come to workshops, and we work with a goodly number of people, from various lines of work and activity and from various parts of the world, very privately and confidentially. We aren't highly visible, but mainly our goal is to work and touch and love, not to be known, so it is such that we work in that capacity.
1992 Concept: Synergy.
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